James Spencer has written a good post on immigration here and also Gavin Maclure has written a good post on the subject here
Also, there was an excellent article in yesterday’s Daily Express which can be read here.
“In 2009 the former Downing Street aide Andrew Neather boasted that the desire to transform Britain through mass immigration had not only been a “driving political purpose” of the Labour government but had also been motivated by the desire to “rub the Right’s nose in diversity.” With those words, Neather exposed the utter treachery and cynicism at the heart of the Labour party.”
The article goes in to some detail of parts of Labour’s Immigration Legacy from the prominence of the burka on the streets of Bradford to the gangland warfare in south London.
“Another graphic symbol of this revolution has been the revival of witchcraft in our midst. Such primitive customs were supposed to have disappeared from Britain centuries ago. They should belong to the superstitious barbarism of a distant past, yet now, thanks to immigration, they have reappeared in Britain. According to a new independent study, police and child protection officers fear that there may be hundreds of witchcraft cases where children are thought to be possessed and therefore have to be beaten, starved or even tortured to drive out the “evil spirits”.
I guess this clearly demonstrates how ‘progressive’ Labour really are.
Remember Victoria Climbie? The left are so progressive that the local social services department failed to intervene to protect Victoria Climbie because staff felt that they should show respect for African customs. Of course if a member of staff wore a cross they’d probably be sacked.
Another result of Labour’s ‘progressive’ open door immigration policy.
“Earlier this month, police revealed that the torso of a boy found floating in the Thames was probably from west Africa and had almost certainly died in a voodoo ritualistic killing, since his head and limbs had been sawn off with the precision of a master butcher and a black magic potion had been found in his stomach. It is possible that he was even brought into Britain purely for the purposes of human sacrifice.”
Also,
“A Muslim population of three million, for instance, has brought with it remorseless pressure for sharia law, the rise of home-grown Islamic terrorism, the destruction of free speech and the introduction of corrupt, tribal politics at the ballot box. “
“The East End London borough of Tower Hamlets is rapidly becoming an Islamic enclave, where Muslim hardliners patrol the streets telling women to wear the veil, blacking out advertising posters that incur their disapproval and sticking up notices declaring “a gay free zone.””
Then of course there is the rumour that the former Rose and Crown public house that was going to be an Indian restaurant is going to be a mosque. I’ve heard that they want a Minaret built onto it. If this rumour is true, now we have a Labour council, we’re going to have to hear prayer calls in Arabic round here.
“As the Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan-Smith stated in a wise speech last Thursday, uncontrolled immigration has led to a significant increase in poverty within Britain.”
Labour allowed some working class areas to be flooded with immigrants so that British people think they are in a foreign land. They allowed cheap labour to flood into the country taking British peoples jobs, increasing unemployment and poverty among the British working class. For this, we should never forgive the Labour party for their deliberate destruction of our country.
Couple Labours immigration legacy with their economic legacy, their taking away of our liberties in the guise of anti-terror legislation and so much more, if you ask “why did they do this?” The only rational answer is that they hate Britain.
Then of course there is the rumour that the former Rose and Crown public house that was going to be an Indian restaurant is going to be a mosque. I’ve heard that they want a Minaret built onto it. If this rumour is true, now we have a Labour council, we’re going to have to hear prayer calls in Arabic round here.
I’m a bit confused by this para — are you saying that Muslim people shouldn’t be allowed to have mosques in Ipswich? Or is it OK for them to have mosques, as long as they don’t call people to prayer?
The differance between a Muslim prayer call and a church bell is that a church bell is a signal while the Muslim prayer call has content. Hence the Minaret is the problem. I failed to mention they’re suposed to be Whabi too.
I don’t understand Arabic, so to me personally, the content will be meaningless. I suspect that’ll be true for most of the people locally, apart from those who are Muslim.
In any case, it seems a bit of an arbitrary distinction if you’re saying it’s OK to make as much religious racket as you like as long as it doesn’t have content. I think anything of a sufficient volume level has the potential to be annoying to neighbours; content or no content.
True. The noise coming from a pub all day on a Sunday is annoying. But pubs need to annoy their neighbours in this way to survive these days.
Your article does give the impression that you are against the idea of there being a mosque in ipswich.I’m not a fan of religion I know that it can give solace in times of need but a lot of its aims are about controlling people and that goes for all religion,you have to get out of the mind set that Islam is the bogey man Islam is no more harmful then Christianity or Judaism if they want to build a mosque let them.that is the benefit of living in a free society or would you rather it was only free for some(white christian Anglo Saxons )
I am not saying Islam is the bogey man. If the people living iin the vicinity were asked if they wanted it, the answer would be “No.” Democracy is the rule of the will of the people.
Presumably change of use from pub to mosque will require a planning application, so people in the vicinity will have the chance to object if they wish?
That is only a part of what Democracy is and taken in isolation completely misrepresents what Democracy means.
Democracy should not be the tyranny of the majority.
Democracy is equally about protecting the rights of minorities to freely follow their beliefs.
And I think it’s rather presumptious of you to speak on behalf of the people.
Can you also clarify which types of noise are acceptable? Christian church bells and rowdy pubs are fine but Islamic prayers are not?
Jacob Seabrook, that is not democracy. There’s a minority want to bring back public flogging. Does democracy support their rights to follow their beliefs?
Further more, as I live in the area it is not presumptious of me to speak on behalf of the people. On the contary!
For the record, rowdy pubs are not fine.
Unfortunately for you, you are completely wrong about what democracy means. As I said originally democracy is a very wide and nuanced concept with many meanings and to suggest it has just one strand is over simplification to the banal. However, Democracy IS about allowing people to hold their beliefs whatever they may be contrary to what you think. I can recommend ‘On Democracy’ by Robert Dahl which explores what democracy means and its practical application in a variety of modern ‘democracies’.
Also living amongst people does not make you their voice unless of course they have elected you to such a position.
I’ve also crossed rowdy pubs off ‘Kevin’s list of acceptable noise’ which is now just down to Christian Church Bells and the sound of his own voice.
Of course democracy is a very wide and nuanced concept with many meanings. Hosni Mubaralwas the meber of the Egyptian democratic party. Democracy is NOT about allowing people to hold their beliefs whatever they may be, that’s just liberal left balderdash.
Also living amongst people does not make you their voice and being elected to such a position doesn’t make you their voice either.
You have gone full circle on speaking for the people. You are now opposing your previous point. First you speak for the people because you live there and now you can’t. On the contrary!
And I don’t want to labour a point but again suggesting that protecting minorities is not a part of Democracy is just completely and utterly wrong and my position has nothing to do with being liberal or left.
You should read that book.
I get the impression that reading things that might alter you ‘world’ view aren’t high on your list of things to do.
According to your logic that we should protect the minorities oppinion, to be democratic we should have AV to respect the beliefs of the minority who wanted it.
I’m fairly sure that I read the Guardian a lot more than you read the Daily Mail.
To suggest that the Labour immigration policy was designed to allow or encouraged the abuse of children is tasteless and offensive.
This entry illustrates intolerance, confusion and wild illogical conclusions.
A new low by all accounts.
Thank you Jacob. Nice to know you’re still mty biggest fan.
I agree with Jacob this entry has been a low point amongst some of the wild and incorrect accusations you usually aim at labour but this has made you come across as small minded as Mr boater
I was expecting to be called Islamophobic. But I’m being called as small minded as Mr boater instead. This is not suprising. Anyone challenges Labour’s record on immigration and they’re accused of fascist tendencies and the like.
We can’t have a sensible debate on immigration because the liberal left (and some immigrants as well) then throw accusations of racism, fascism and the like. A guess they have to resort to such accusations because they have no way of supporting their barmy bviews.
Comparing you to Mr boater may of been unfair of me and I think plenty of people on the left would welcome sensible debate on immigration
Fair enough.
Thanks Labour!
Kevin that doesn’t even make sense. My original point was in opposition to you using the concept of democracy as reason to stop a minority group being allowed to practice their religion due to majority opposition. At no point have i suggested that democracy means enforcing the will of the minority on the majority. That’s quite the opposite as that is the antithesis of democracy. Either you are just making up what you think i have said or you don’t understand.
I wouldn’t read the daily mail for the same reason i wouldn’t read the sun or the daily star.
Where have I suggested stopping a minority group being allowed to practice their religion?
Talk about altering what I’ve said. But that’s politics isn’t it?
What about the actual thrust of what I was saying Kevin? Do you agree you were completely wrong about what you said about Democracy now? Have you checked with your mentor Mr Maclure and he’s confirmed that even the right wing in Ipswich understand democracy? I appreciate it makes you look foolish as you write a blog on local politics but demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of one of the main tenets of what you are writing about but it always looks good if you can admit when you are wrong.
My point was you are opposing the change of use of the Rose and Crown. Muslims need somewhere to worship. You used the concept of democracy to justify stopping them and I pointed out you were wrong. At that point you went off piste.
I think James over at Bridge Ward News says it wellhere
Furthermore. If the people don’t want a Mosque then they shouldn’t have one. But the left would rather patronise the electorate because they are arrogant enough to think that they are the ‘progressive’ left who know better.
The big society is about empowering local communities but the left would rather rule over them.
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In ipswich there are 79719 people who consider themselves christian and we have 43 churches in the ipswich area,there are 1462 people of muslim faith in ipswich and one mosque on bond street,would it be so terrible for there to be another mosque.as for if the people don’t want a mosque they shouldn’t have one statement where does the line stop if that’s ok does that mean if the people don’t want black people,Asians or homosexuals around then if the majority want that does that make it ok off course not and that’s not the left being patronising that’s about respect for peoples rights
So you respect peoples right to open a Wahabi Mosque to preach hatred so that the next generation of Ipswich’s small Muslim community feel that Britain is a kuffir society that rejects them do you?
Do you think it wouldn’t be so bad?
The article in the Express was obviously about the ridiculous thinking of people like you.
You seem to be getting rumour and fact mixed up which is ironic as you frequently acusse labour of that,it has not been confirmed that the rose and crown will even be a mosque let alone a wahabi mosque.also seem to forget that the majority of Muslims do not preach hate.I do suport freedom of expression but the exception is always going to be preaching hate and intolerance this is never acceptable no mater who its from both muslim or christian or any faith
If the rumour that they are extremists is correct, then my last comment to you is accurate. But as James on Bridge Ward News said, it needs to be established if the rumour is true or not.
You have just said -” it needs to be established if the rumour is true or not.” If it is a rumour only- why blog on it? It ius just scaremongering- when it is amattera s important as this- rumours should not be used as part of the debate. immigration should be debated but without the use of rumours.
Alasdair, I mentioned it in passing on my blog because a lot of people round here are concerned about it.
I think it would be best if we all just stopped reading this rubbish. In this post Kevin has demonstrated all that is wrong about his blog. He has shown he doesn’t understand basic parts of the basis of our society. This is not party political – he doesn’t understand democracy. He has based an inaccurate and misleading post on rumour and hearsay. He has contradicted himself and his own arguments. Some of it is just made up. This is just ill thought through rubbish. The only saving grace is it looks like it’s only myself, Mr Ross, Glen and Mo who are foolish enough to read it. Well it’s one down from that list as I’m going to go and read what the organ grinder has to say over at bridge ward news instead.
It’s a rumour that women wear the Burka on the streets of Bradford?
It’s a rumour that there is gangland warfare in south London?
The death of Victoria Climbie is only a rumour?
It’s a rumour that Labour allowed some working class areas to be flooded with immigrants so that British people think they are in a foreign land?
It’s a rumour that they allowed cheap labour to flood into the country taking British peoples jobs, increasing unemployment and poverty among the British working class?
Where have you been for the last ten years?
This is ill thought out rubbish but James’ blog isn’t?
So you agree with James’ post here. do you? But disagree with me when I say he’s hit the nail on the head?
It appears that it is in fact your last comment that is just ill thought through rubbish doesn’t it?
Out of interest, how many contacts have you got in the middle east?
Gang warfare in London- The Krays, Richardsons? Not new
How long has East London been the first home for those fleeing their own country? – 250 years? Jews, Germans, French, it is nothing new to have people come to Britain for a better life – Mr Howard, your former leader for one.
Good point about The Krays and Richardsons. It’s not the same type of gang warfare though is it?
Jews, Germans, French etc. made East London home but they integrated unlike the latest batch who have no need to intigrate due to Labours open door immigration policy.
One last time then Kevin just to clear this up.
First let me just run through what I said so that it is clear and then we can look at your response.
So my first point about you not understanding Democracy you aren’t disputing so we shall accept that.
My second point refers to an innacurate and misleading post based on rumour and hearsay and here I shall quote directly from above “Then of course there is the rumour that the former Rose and Crown public house that was going to be an Indian restaurant is going to be a mosque”. You also say that the reason Victoria Climbie’s case was not investigated properly was due to Labours immigration policy. Where quite to start with that i’m not sure but that is both innacurate and misleading. The Laming Enquiry in to her death found that systemic failure of the implementation of the legislative framework was the problem – nothing to do with Labour’s immigration policy. I feel slightly silly even having to write this as it’s such a bizzare accusation.
You have clearly contradicted yourself by claiming to speak for the people and subsequently explaining that you can not speak for the people.
Some of it is just made up….”We can’t have a sensible debate on immigration because the liberal left (and some immigrants as well) then throw accusations of racism, fascism and the like. A guess they have to resort to such accusations because they have no way of supporting their barmy bviews.” Completely made up. I know that all sorts or left wing and right wing groups have very sensible discussions on immigration they just don’t happen on this blog where instead it is replaced with wild imflammatory suggestions and accusations.
So on to your response. Firstly my general observation would be that you don’t appear to have read what was written but instead rather flown off in to one of your ‘all socialists don’t understand anything’ rants.
You start by looking to establish some of the facts in your regurgitation. Of course there are people in Bradford wearing burkas and sadly Victoria Climbie was killed. I didn’t say that either of these things weren’t true and to suggest I did is misleading again.
Gangs in London have been around a lot longer than Labour’s immigration policy and to then try to support your new version with a limp ‘it’s not the same type’. That sounds like rumour or hearsay or maybe just made up.
You then talk about your very apocalyptic sounding flood (Mr Boater would approve). There may be some facts in there but with all of the tub thumping language it’s impossible to dig them out. You repeat these same lines like a maxim over and over again but what that likens you to may be lost on you.
For the last ten years I have lived throughout England if you must know. Not sure of the relevance.
At no point did I say that James’ blog wasn’t ill thought through rubbish. At no point what so ever did I say I agree with his blog or did I even vaguely suggest this. This gets me back to the point that if you are reading things you aren’t taking them in. This is just completely made up. Innacurate accusations. I likened James to the organ grinder and by association you to the organ grinders little chum – a reference to you having to get James to defend your now proven ill thought through ideas.
I have absolutely no idea what contacts in the middle east refers to so I’m ignoring that completely.
So when we look back now we will have to agree that it was in fact you who has written the rubbish.
So you haven’t got any contacts in th emiddle east then. So you wouldn’t understand Islam or know anything about the dynamics of differant forms of it then? We’;'re talking about the form of Islam practiced by Al Queda for Gods sake! Did you support 9/11?
You are now making youself very foolish- there is no need to visit the Middle east to fully understand Islam – but it can assist- have you been to the Middle East? I have spent 7 months in Afghainistan plus also served in Bosnia, Kosova and Cyprus – conflicts there are often seen as Islam v Christian but often are very similar to traibal conflicts taht you find in N Ireland.
You started your post with a rumour – scaremongering – it is that sort of rumour that causes many problems we have. The Muslim community in the main in Ipswich has integrated well withing the local community. It is only posts likes yours that allow the BNP/EDL the excuse they require to start trouble.
The end of your blog states this about the Labour Party – ‘The only rational answer is that they hate Britain.
If I hate Britain so much why did I spend 25 years in the Army? Why do Labour Councillors spend all their free time, serving their communities?
You need to think far more carefully about what you publish.
Why do Ipswich Labour want the former Zest noght club to reopen to be a cash and carry for drug dealers again if they care so much?
You look ridiculous now Kevin. There is not the slightest shred of logic to that reply. You have ignored a lengthy post that is filled with valid points and criticisms and all you can do is make another meaningless post (as well explained by Mr Ross) about having contacts in the middle east (from which may we assume you have never been?). You have lived in England for some time but we can see that hasn’t made you an expert on it. You are ill-informed, ignorant and confused as has been very clearly demonstrated. I think you should start writing about a subject matter you have some knowledge of.
Typical middle class left wing no it all! Come back and talk to me after you’ve got your head out of the Guardian and stoped listening to radio 4 with it’s ignoorant numpties like Polly Toynbee and co.
I have no connection with the middle east but even as an atheist I have studied the main religions in a hope to better understand the community I live in,I consider myself privileged to have grown up amongst catholic,Muslims and Jews as it has enriched my understanding of how people intact..your comments are making sound more bigoted by the minute and show you have no understanding of Islam..yes there are fundamentals who tarnish the faith but they are just as bigoted and short sighted as you
Come back why? You can’t respond to a single point that’s been made in any coherent way now. You look like an idiot. And then when you have nothing else to say he accuses you of being a middle class a guardian reader. David Cameron listen to radio 4, the conservatives are middle class and clever ones read the guardian.You have just tried to offend the party you claim to be part of. You act like your some man of the world but you are a small minded, hate filled bigot. And I’m sorry to stoop to your level but it’s “know it all” not “no it all” as you keep saying.
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If I was you, I would remove this post and comments- your are looking like an attention seeker.
I hardly ever read the Guardian, and never listen to Radio 4 (except when I was on it, talking about the job the Army is doing in Sangin, Afghanistan)
As Labour has only been in power three weeks, any plans to open night clubs would have gone through under a Tory run council.
Also if you knew anything about local Government, you would have known that planning and licensing are not meant to be political, though I understand why you may have been confused after the planning permission for Tesco’s in Grafton Way seemed to be pushed through with little debate.
Where I (and others) may be going wrong is to take the time to comment on your ill thought out quotes.
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